NY Blackout and Cell Usage

I'm curious to see what cell companies, (Verizon, Nextel, etc.) continued to
have service in the affected areas during the black out and who did not.
Thanks in advance.

[John Filangeri]

Post by
I'm curious to see what cell companies, (Verizon, Nextel, etc.) continued to
have service in the affected areas during the black out and who did not.
Thanks in advance.

They all worked, but almost all were overloaded at some time or other during
the first couple of hours.

John

[Klopus Normalis]

Exactly same observations based on 4-5 hours in a crowd waiting for
ferry to NJ. No clear winner, all overloaded loosers. My A530 could get
incomming calls and SMS from ATTWS GSM. But nothing would go out. Full
bars all the time.

Post by John Filangeri

Post by
I'm curious to see what cell companies, (Verizon, Nextel, etc.) continued

to

Post by
have service in the affected areas during the black out and who did not.
Thanks in advance.

They all worked, but almost all were overloaded at some time or other during
the first couple of hours.
John

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[Steve & Susan]

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 06:01:30 -0700, Group Special Mobile

No system whether it's land lines or mobile phones is engineered for
disasters

You mean no post-cold war, post-deregulation system is engineered for
disasters. Old wireline "Bell System" infrastructure was absolutely
engineered for disasters. They were a vital partner in our nation's
homeland security in the 50's, 60's and 70's.

The problem with competition is that anyone can put a phone switch in
an office park, strip mall or in their garage, have their lawyers
engage in a tariff with the state and *poof* they're a telephone
company. A telephone company with infrastructure that's pretty much
worthless in serving its subscriber base under less-than-optimal
conditions.

Not just that, but we defeat any degree of preparedness by replacing
wired phones with phones that have talk-time limited by batteries. I
found one of these posts hard to believe - that someone didn't have
(at least) one phone in their house/ apartment that didn't need
batteries!

and everyone wanting to use their phones at once.

True. No system was. To that end, the NCS has implemented partitioning
for essential communications and non-essential communications to
insure the continuity of government through patent communications
pathways. Publicly-accessed infrastructure relies on the principles of
trunking and 'chokedown' to give a large number of people access to a
limited amount of resource.

Steve

[Group Special Mobile]

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 08:31:42 -0500, Steve & Susan

Post by Steve & Susan
You mean no post-cold war, post-deregulation system is engineered for
disasters. Old wireline "Bell System" infrastructure was absolutely
engineered for disasters. They were a vital partner in our nation's
homeland security in the 50's, 60's and 70's.

You either have a short memory or you've never lived through a major
event in the 50's, 60's, 70's or 80's. The systems are robust, but
when you have the whole city removing their receivers at the same time
you're going to have degredation of service. It won't tank, but some
calls may not complete, some places you'll have to wait an
inordinately long time for dial tone etc. Telcos would be a little
irresponsible if they rigged their systems for catastrophe situations.
They'd go bust. Systems are engineered for peak and off peak use, but
they're not engineered for 1000% increase in load.

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[Group Special Mobile]

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 20:19:20 -0500, Steve & Susan

Post by Group Special Mobile
You either have a short memory or you've never lived through a major
event in the 50's, 60's, 70's or 80's.

You must not have a GETS card.

I'm not important enough to get a GETS. I'm glad that you are among
the privileged that do.

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[Steve & Susan]

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 08:08:40 -0700, Group Special Mobile

Post by Group Special Mobile
I'm not important enough to get a GETS. I'm glad that you are among
the privileged that do.

It was only by job and certainly not by choice, Mr. (or Ms.?) GSM.

Aside from tests, I only had to use it once in 2001. I don't look
forward to ever having to use it again.

Steve

[Group Special Mobile]

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 08:31:42 -0500, Steve & Susan

Post by Steve & Susan
The problem with competition is that anyone can put a phone switch in
an office park, strip mall or in their garage, have their lawyers
engage in a tariff with the state and *poof* they're a telephone
company. A telephone company with infrastructure that's pretty much
worthless in serving its subscriber base under less-than-optimal
conditions.

Except you cannot blame that on a CLEC when the CLEC is using the
infrastructure of the ILEC which is what a lot of these new companies
are. They have no physical plant and only resell service of rhe ILEC.
That's not always the case, but at least for the first few years of
non ILEC phone service that's the way it's been.

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[Steve & Susan]

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 14:59:27 -0700, Group Special Mobile

Post by Group Special Mobile
Except you cannot blame that on a CLEC when the CLEC is using the
infrastructure of the ILEC which is what a lot of these new companies
are. They have no physical plant and only resell service of rhe ILEC.
That's not always the case, but at least for the first few years of
non ILEC phone service that's the way it's been.

True, but I'm referring to facilities-based CLECs and particularly to
CLECs who supply dialtone over cable TV infrastructure. Most people I
know complained about the MTBF of cable TV and they were the first
ones to jump on board the system to save $0.05.

Resellers and UNE providers are another unique breed (especially the
ones who advertise on daytime TV), particularly when approached to
submit 9-1-1 revenue.

Steve

[Steven J Sobol]

Post by Steve & Susan
True, but I'm referring to facilities-based CLECs and particularly to
CLECs who supply dialtone over cable TV infrastructure.

I wouldn't buy dialtone from the cable company. Cable companies have
problems running their TV operations the right way. ;)

**SJS (who, nonetheless, does have an IP phone running over his
cablemodem connection - but has cellular and landline backup for that phone)

[Steven J Sobol]

Post by Group Special Mobile
Except you cannot blame that on a CLEC when the CLEC is using the
infrastructure of the ILEC which is what a lot of these new companies
are. They have no physical plant and only resell service of rhe ILEC.
That's not always the case, but at least for the first few years of
non ILEC phone service that's the way it's been.

I think this "anyone can become a telco" mantra is stupid.

Real-life example: XO Communications, formerly Nextlink, is a CLEC with
their cleveland Central Office in the Superior Building, at the corner of
Superior and East 9th. They were originally on the second floor and have
expanded to the fifth floor a couple years ago.

I leased space on the sixth floor of that building, and used to work for an
ISP on the fourth floor.

Some of you may remember the water main break that dumped 25 million gallons of
water on the streets of Cleveland's financial district in '00. The water main
that failed was on Rockwell Avenue just west of 9th, *directly* behind the
Superior Building.

XO did NOT go down. They had plenty of backup power from a diesel generator.
In fact, I moved my servers from my own office down to my former employers'
office after they were able to get on XO's generator. I believe that they
still contract with XO to provide generator backup behind the massive UPS
they have in their colocation facility.

So... just because a phone company is a facilities-based CLEC doesn't
automatically mean they're clueless, it doesn't mean they don't have a
disaster plan in place, etc.

I'm not going to say the other things I was going to say because others
have already expressed the same things elsewhere in this thread...

[Steve & Susan]

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 05:03:32 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein

Post by Steve & Susan
Old wireline "Bell System" infrastructure was absolutely
engineered for disasters. They were a vital partner in our nation's
homeland security in the 50's, 60's and 70's.

Not quite as easy as that. While the phone equipment and network in the
days of One Bell System, It Works, would last through just about anything
imaginable,

I thought that's what I said. In fact, there are great pictures and
descriptions of old (and now defunct) AT&T Long Lines facilities all
over the web - complete with nuclear blast detectors and electric
combustion toilets. They just don't make those anymore. I'm still
looking for a good 220 Volt toilet for my garage.

the network was NOT designed to be non-blocking.

I didn't say that.

But, anyway, the network now holds some of that capacity in abeyance
for continuity of government. Pretty important because what emergency
manager can compete with everyone calling home to tell someone to turn
their TV on (oh, wait, there was no TV)?

There's a very detailed science in making these designs - trying to figure
out what capacity a switch needs. Check out "erlang".

Erlang B is a fine algorithm as a STARTING POINT. Empirically, other
factors are important in considering how many trunk groups are
actually needed. For instance, (a real-life situation in E 9-1-1
infrastructure) is it wise for an ILEC in a given area to concentrate
250 square miles containing one small city and diverse rural areas,
each with with its own uniquely identifiable center of community, into
only three trunks given simply following Erlang B?

Steve

[Donald Newcomb]

Post by Steve & Susan
I thought that's what I said. In fact, there are great pictures and
descriptions of old (and now defunct) AT&T Long Lines facilities all
over the web - complete with nuclear blast detectors and electric
combustion toilets. They just don't make those anymore. I'm still
looking for a good 220 Volt toilet for my garage.

For some strange reason I remember back in the dark ages, a high-school
teacher was out sick and "coach" substituted. He just rolled in the 16mm
projector and showed us a film about an AT&T project to install a war-proof
communications line from NY (or DC) to L.A. The whole thing was built on
submarine cable technology. The cables were all buried down 6 feet. The
power and switching centers were in bunkers with all the equipment suspended
on large springs. As I recall, they left a small hollow tube in the cable to
pull some future technology, which was supposed to be mm waveguide. I wonder
if they ever pulled FO lines into those cables? Probably the only thing I
remember from high-school.
--

Donald Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net
Remove 'NOT' from address to reply

[cindy]

the blackout 2003 is a good thing because the system
needs to be tested now and then to fix it.

[cindy]

# 28 29 30

the blackout 2003 is a good thing because the system
needs to be tested now and then to fix it and the
best thing about a blackout in the subway is having
sex in the dark with someone you don't know.


yes yes yes it's a good thing unsafe sex.

[Steve & Susan]

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 13:55:16 -0500, "Donald Newcomb"

Post by Donald Newcomb
For some strange reason I remember back in the dark ages, a high-school
teacher was out sick and "coach" substituted. He just rolled in the 16mm
projector and showed us a film about an AT&T project to install a war-proof
communications line from NY (or DC) to L.A.

Yes, indeed. Here's an advertisement for it:

http://www19.addr.com/~longline/tech-equip/coaxial/4000mi-trench.html

(now, if we could only get people to take civil preparedness so
seriously these days, but I digress...)

The network was a complex array of coaxial cable and microwave and the
facilities were indeed meant to withstand the Big One.

Technology did it all in.

If you want to reminisce, here's tons o' fascinating stuff:
http://www19.addr.com/~longline/places-routes/maps/FT/1981LightGuide.html
http://www.drgibson.com/towers/
http://www19.addr.com/~longline/places-routes/
Loading Image...
http://www1.shore.net/~mfoster/LCXR.htm
Loading Image...

And one for S&G's (one of my favorite web pages):
http://www.dmine.com/phworld/sounds/intl.htm

Steve

[Jeremy Goodwin]

No system whether it's land lines or mobile phones is engineered for
disasters and everyone wanting to use their phones at once.
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One exchange is engineered for maximum flow and that is the local radio
contest line grouping, which shunts to a busy signal for the whole
exchange when overloaded. It is possible to crash the land line
exchanges with sufficient call volume.

A. Top posters.
Q. What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

[MArk Filla]

My NEXTEL contact advised that the 8 HR battery capacity is being taxed
at all of the sites although the NE switch facilities and the sites that
are on generator are still running.

He says that the system should until run to about midnight and then go
dark as the batteries will be history. They are deploying mobile
generators to key sites also, but being they are doing damage control he
couldn't advise much more.

With what I know about the site designs of a good number of the
providers, if the sites aren't on generators they will go 4 to 8 hours
before going away.

[Steve & Susan]

Post by MArk Filla
My NEXTEL contact advised that the 8 HR battery capacity is being taxed
at all of the sites although the NE switch facilities and the sites that
are on generator are still running.

That's hardly worthwhile if all of the RF sites are on UPS and have no
climate control.

Post by MArk Filla
He says that the system should until run to about midnight and then go
dark as the batteries will be history. They are deploying mobile
generators to key sites also, but being they are doing damage control he
couldn't advise much more.

My area wasn't affected (this time), but we have our share of
blackouts due to inclement weather. It's been my experience that sites
with generator jacks and minimal UPS backup have to be a business
priority for restoration. If a whole city is dark and there are three
technicians with maybe six generators, they go where the most
potential for revenue is.

For us public safety types, the maxim "If 'cellular' is your backup,
you have no backup" still applies.

Post by MArk Filla
With what I know about the site designs of a good number of the
providers, if the sites aren't on generators they will go 4 to 8 hours
before going away.

Ny Nextel contact (:o) added that climate control systems aren't
backed up. Even if they had batteries in the enclosure the site may
alarm out and go off-line because the limit thresholds for temperature
have been exceeded.

Steve

[Hopper]

Post by
I'm curious to see what cell companies, (Verizon, Nextel, etc.) continued to
have service in the affected areas during the black out and who did not.
Thanks in advance.

I just called a friend in NYC. He's using AT&Ts GSM service. The first try,
I got an all circuits are busy message. The call went through the second
time with no problem. He said his Blackberry, using Nextel, worked just
fine. He said calls were not always completed, but for the most part
everything worked.

Hopper

[Chris Gowen]

I don't know about anyone Else but i know VZW is online

Post by
I'm curious to see what cell companies, (Verizon, Nextel, etc.) continued to
have service in the affected areas during the black out and who did not.
Thanks in advance.

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[/dev/ (Justa Lurker)]

It was Fri, 15 Aug 2003 01:18:39 -0000, and ***@starband.net
(Chris Gowen) wrote in alt.cellular:
| I don't know about anyone Else but i know VZW is online

And VZW has already released a press release bragging ...

JL


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[Mark E. Daniel]

Post by /dev/ (Justa Lurker)
| I don't know about anyone Else but i know VZW is online

The towers were fine...I had a signal. But the paths to landlines were
overloaded. And calling a vzw customer right across from me at the same
table resulted in Calling...for six or seven attempts and then when I could
finally get a channel to the tower it would ring thru to his voicemail.
Calls to me were like that for several hours. There were obviously lots
of vzw customers all tryin to call ot get called at the same time in my
area....lol Alltel and attws seemed unaffected. I am in Northeast Ohio
and was in a black part of Summit County at the time. Text messaging
from vzw to vzw failed as well, but I guess thats to be expected...lol
It was at least two hours before my phone would ring from a landline and
even then it was spotty due to overload.




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[Brad]

And how many zillions of the calls were totally a waist of cell tower time.
At a time like that, everyone should stay off the friggin phone unless it's
a REAL emergency.
But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, lets tie it all up with inane conversations.

Post by Mark E. Daniel

Post by /dev/ (Justa Lurker)
| I don't know about anyone Else but i know VZW is online

The towers were fine...I had a signal. But the paths to landlines were
overloaded. And calling a vzw customer right across from me at the same
table resulted in Calling...for six or seven attempts and then when I could
finally get a channel to the tower it would ring thru to his voicemail.
Calls to me were like that for several hours. There were obviously lots
of vzw customers all tryin to call ot get called at the same time in my
area....lol Alltel and attws seemed unaffected. I am in Northeast Ohio
and was in a black part of Summit County at the time. Text messaging
from vzw to vzw failed as well, but I guess thats to be expected...lol
It was at least two hours before my phone would ring from a landline and
even then it was spotty due to overload.
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[Donald Newcomb]

Post by Brad
And how many zillions of the calls were totally a waist of cell tower time.
At a time like that, everyone should stay off the friggin phone unless it's
a REAL emergency.
But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, lets tie it all up with inane conversations.

There is a distinct difference between, "Honey, nothing's working here. I'm
walking to Bill's to crash there for the night. Bye" and "Oh, I'm so glad I
got through to you. Let me tell you what happened to me today........". If
people would just exercise a little self discipline, there would be plenty
of capacity for important but non-emergency calls. But Noooooo! They just
have to call everyone they know to vent and "process" and "think out loud".
We have "the tragedy of the commons" applied to communications.

--

Donald Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net
Remove 'NOT' from address to reply

[Paul Kim]

Post by Brad
And how many zillions of the calls were totally a waist of cell tower time.
At a time like that, everyone should stay off the friggin phone unless it's
a REAL emergency.
But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, lets tie it all up with inane conversations.

Why not let the system do that? Any REAL emergency is 911. Cell towers will
drop non-emergency calls, and switches will also drop calls, whenever you
dial 911 and the tower is busy, so you're pretty much guaranteed the call.

[Steven J Sobol]

Post by Paul Kim
Why not let the system do that? Any REAL emergency is 911. Cell towers will
drop non-emergency calls, and switches will also drop calls, whenever you
dial 911 and the tower is busy, so you're pretty much guaranteed the call.

There are plenty of important calls (like the aforementioned "No transit,
the streets are completely dark, I'm staying at Joe's apartment tonight")
that aren't 911 calls.

[James Knott]

Post by Paul Kim
Why not let the system do that? Any REAL emergency is 911. Cell towers
will drop non-emergency calls, and switches will also drop calls, whenever
you dial 911 and the tower is busy, so you're pretty much guaranteed the
call.

Assuming you get to place that call.

[Mark Filla]

Like you don't think that the daycare is not aware of the situation
already...Pleeeze! You have no choice nowadays except to evesdrop on
the most stupidist conversations and
I'm sure that 75% of those conversations were just that during the
blackout and at the same time they were blocking the calls that people
trapped in subway cars and elevators that really needed 911.

As far as dropping calls for 911, sorry that isn't so (commenting on the
bottom post). It will prioritize and put you at the top of the que, but
it won't drop a call in progress.
--
Mark KS4VT

Well I meant emergency also including calling the day care to inform them
they won't be there on time, etc.
Not just calling because your bored or a drama queen.

Post by Paul Kim

Post by Brad
And how many zillions of the calls were totally a waist of cell tower

time.

Post by Brad
At a time like that, everyone should stay off the friggin phone unless

it's

Post by Brad
a REAL emergency.
But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, lets tie it all up with inane conversations.

Why not let the system do that? Any REAL emergency is 911. Cell towers

will

Post by Paul Kim
drop non-emergency calls, and switches will also drop calls, whenever you
dial 911 and the tower is busy, so you're pretty much guaranteed the call.

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[Mark Filla]

If the systems were all designed for emergency situations, hence
available for every user to be on at once is:
1. Ecomomicially unfeasable due to the back-bone and interconnect
requirements that would occur at each tower site.
2. Unable to do because of the spectrum requirements
3. Days worth of back-up power is very expensive and would require
generators at every site. Rooftop sites would probably be prohibitive
and to add, maintenance and fueling is very expensive.

Add to this, if the system was sized for maximum usage by all the users
you or I probably wouldn't want to pay the subscription prices to access
it. How would you like to pay $2.50 per minute like a satellite phone
costs?

That's right I blame the users, you certainly can't blame the cellular
companies being they do the best that they can with the available
spectrum that they have and the budget's that they have to deal with.
The users need to utilize common sense once the state of emergency is
called.

Now if the cell companies were smart they would institute a system wide
text message to all their users (similar to the Emergency Broadcast
System) advising all of the subscribers the situation at hand and
requesting them to cease placing routine calls so emergency calls can
get thru uninterrupted.
--
Mark KS4VT

So mark,
instead of the wireless providers being at fault for not making sure the
systems are rock solid, backed-up and can handle emergency situations
your solution is to blame users that pay money for service? OH ok I
think your responsiblity's are screwed up. Yeah the call could be
complete garbage and about nothing, but thats not for you or I or anyone
else to judge the person pays the provider for service all the time, not
just when the person has something important to say as judged by you or
anyone else. Maybe its important to them. Its the fat cat providers to
blame not spending the $$ to make sure those systems work when needed.

Post by Mark Filla
Like you don't think that the daycare is not aware of the situation
already...Pleeeze! You have no choice nowadays except to evesdrop on
the most stupidist conversations and
I'm sure that 75% of those conversations were just that during the
blackout and at the same time they were blocking the calls that people
trapped in subway cars and elevators that really needed 911.
As far as dropping calls for 911, sorry that isn't so (commenting on the
bottom post). It will prioritize and put you at the top of the que, but
it won't drop a call in progress.
--
Mark KS4VT

Well I meant emergency also including calling the day care to inform them
they won't be there on time, etc.
Not just calling because your bored or a drama queen.

Post by Paul Kim

Post by Brad
And how many zillions of the calls were totally a waist of cell tower

time.

Post by Brad
At a time like that, everyone should stay off the friggin phone unless

it's

Post by Brad
a REAL emergency.
But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, lets tie it all up with inane conversations.

Why not let the system do that? Any REAL emergency is 911. Cell towers

will

Post by Paul Kim
drop non-emergency calls, and switches will also drop calls, whenever you
dial 911 and the tower is busy, so you're pretty much guaranteed the call.

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[cindy]

the blackout 2003 is a good thing because the system
needs to be tested now and then to fix it.

[Donald Newcomb]

Well I meant emergency also including calling the day care to inform them
they won't be there on time, etc.
Not just calling because your bored or a drama queen.

That actually does not fit the usual definition of "emergency" unless the
day care is going to toss your kid in blender if you're late. An emergency
an urgent situation affecting life, health, safety or perhaps, extreme
financial loss (e.g. fire threatening unoccupied building). The day-care
situation is simply an urgent personal matter.
--

Donald Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net
Remove 'NOT' from address to reply

[Hopper]

Post by
I'm curious to see what cell companies, (Verizon, Nextel, etc.) continued to
have service in the affected areas during the black out and who did not.
Thanks in advance.

I just called a friend in NYC. He's using AT&Ts GSM service. The first try,
I got an all circuits are busy message. The call went through the second
time with no problem. He said his Blackberry, using Nextel, worked just
fine. He said calls were not always completed, but for the most part
everything worked.

Hopper

[John Eckart]

Can anyone tell me if the landline phones work during blackouts in NY?

Post by
I'm curious to see what cell companies, (Verizon, Nextel, etc.) continued to
have service in the affected areas during the black out and who did not.
Thanks in advance.

[Asher Siboni]

yea they did if your landline phone had a backup batery

Post by John Eckart
Can anyone tell me if the landline phones work during blackouts in NY?

I'm curious to see what cell companies, (Verizon, Nextel, etc.) =

continued to

have service in the affected areas during the black out and who did =

not.

Thanks in advance.
=20

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[Steven J Sobol]

Post by Asher Siboni
yea they did if your landline phone had a backup batery

Whether your individual phone has power isn't the point. Unless it's
a cordless that requires electricity, your phone runs off power provided
by voltage in the phone line (which is why you can use non-cordless phones
in a blackout). The issue is if there is power at the switching facilities
that carry the traffic (basically, just like on 9/11/01).

[N9WOS]

Post by Steven J Sobol

Post by Asher Siboni
yea they did if your landline phone had a backup batery

Whether your individual phone has power isn't the point. Unless it's
a cordless that requires electricity, your phone runs off power provided
by voltage in the phone line (which is why you can use non-cordless phones
in a blackout). The issue is if there is power at the switching facilities
that carry the traffic (basically, just like on 9/11/01).

And almost all exchanges have backup batteries across the main
DC buss that runs the equipment.
The batteries are there to smooth out power flow, and
to provide power in an outage, until generators can
be brought on line, or can be delivered to the site.

[Steven J Sobol]

Post by Asher Siboni
yea they did if your landline phone had a backup batery

Sad commentary. At what point in the evolution of our society did
wireline telephones ever require battteries?

When cordless phones came into wide use, but as mentioned, whether the
phone had power isn't the point.

[Steve & Susan]

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 10:06:47 -0500, Steven J Sobol

... but as mentioned, whether the
phone had power isn't the point.

I guess you were referring to the CO battery.

Steve

[Steven J Sobol]

Post by Steve & Susan
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 10:06:47 -0500, Steven J Sobol

... but as mentioned, whether the
phone had power isn't the point.

I guess you were referring to the CO battery.

Indeed I was. If all you have is a cordless phone that needs electricity
to run, you should get one of those $5-$10 trimline phones that gets power
from the phoneline, just in case of emergency.

The big issue is whether the COs are powered.

[danny burstein]

Post by Steven J Sobol

Post by Steve & Susan
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 10:06:47 -0500, Steven J Sobol

... but as mentioned, whether the
phone had power isn't the point.

I guess you were referring to the CO battery.

Indeed I was. If all you have is a cordless phone that needs electricity
to run, you should get one of those $5-$10 trimline phones that gets power
from the phoneline, just in case of emergency.
The big issue is whether the COs are powered.

As others have mentioned, and as I personally experienced, while the
central offices themselves may survive a Russkie nuke hit and keep running
for weeks, a hefty portion of even "regular" phone lines are served by
remote (off site) equipment. And these gizmos tend to only havebattery
backups good for only a few hours.

[Steven J Sobol]

Post by danny burstein
As others have mentioned, and as I personally experienced, while the
central offices themselves may survive a Russkie nuke hit and keep running
for weeks, a hefty portion of even "regular" phone lines are served by
remote (off site) equipment. And these gizmos tend to only havebattery
backups good for only a few hours.

I wonder what would happen with my parents, out in an out-of-the-way part
of Geauga County, Ohio. The Alltel "CO" that serves their phone line seems to
simply be a box on the side of Route 86. The only true CO that I know of
in Geauga County that's owned by Alltel would be the one in Chardon.

Only a couple cellular carriers have good coverage out there. Actually there
are three - but in an emergency like this, I wonder how quickly the towers
would fill up.

I should probably ask them - they were without power at work in downtown
Cleveland, but I didn't find out what happened at the house. They are halfway
between Cleveland and Erie, PA and were well within range to have been
affected by the outage.

[cindy]

the blackout 2003 is a good thing because the system
needs to be tested now and then to fix it.

[Donald Newcomb]

Post by cindy
the blackout 2003 is a good thing because the system
needs to be tested now and then to fix it.

Thank you Cindy. I think we heard you the first 27 times. You don't need to
repeat yourself to be heard here.
--

Donald Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net
Remove 'NOT' from address to reply

[cindy]

# 28 29 30

the blackout 2003 is a good thing because the system
needs to be tested now and then to fix it and the
best thing about a blackout in the subway is having
sex in the dark with someone you don't know.


yes yes yes it's a good thing unsafe sex.

[Group Special Mobile]

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 08:10:02 -0500, Steve & Susan

Post by Asher Siboni
yea they did if your landline phone had a backup batery

Sad commentary. At what point in the evolution of our society did
wireline telephones ever require battteries?

Just FYI originally *all* telephones of the magneto type (crank) had
on premises battery. It was only when systems were converted to
manual common battery that the battery left the premises and was in
the CO only.

Bring back the old Western Electric deskset (it didn't need
batteries).

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[Steve & Susan]

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 18:22:40 -0500, "Donald Newcomb"

Of course a cellphone built that way
would weigh 87 lbs but it could survive a nuclear blast.

It's been 13 years since I was in the cellular business. I worked on a
good deal of the AMPS build-out in the NYC area back then before I
moved into the low-tech, grimy world of public safety communications,
but many of our COs back then had banks of jars just like that. One
time a cellsite technician dropped a wrench across the bussbar... it
welded in place and then melted. Those were the days!

I suppose NiMH would be a better bet for handhelds. LOL!

Steve

[James Knott]

Post by Steve & Susan

Of course a cellphone built that way
would weigh 87 lbs but it could survive a nuclear blast.

It's been 13 years since I was in the cellular business. I worked on a
good deal of the AMPS build-out in the NYC area back then before I
moved into the low-tech, grimy world of public safety communications,
but many of our COs back then had banks of jars just like that. One
time a cellsite technician dropped a wrench across the bussbar... it
welded in place and then melted. Those were the days!

The communications company I used to work for also had those batteries. In
the office I worked in, they were running about 7000 amps at 48V.

[DevilsPGD]

Post by Asher Siboni
yea they did if your landline phone had a backup batery

Sad commentary. At what point in the evolution of our society did
wireline telephones ever require battteries?

Personally, I have a two line desk phone which normally "needs" power to
operate. However, without power, it can still ring, dial, and the
primary handset works. No headset, no speakerphone, no call display, no
per-line ringtones, no mute, no hold, etc, but basic functionality is
still there. Many/most/all should function the same way.

My cordless (one line) has a backup battery in the base, but some
functionality (base speakerphone, rotating encryption, multiple
handsets, handset to handset call transfer, paging, etc) is lost without
baseline power. I have about a week of standby, and about 3-4 hours of
talktime on the base and 7-8 on the handset without a recharge.
Additionally, the base and handset batteries are interchangeable, so I
can pop the battery out of other handsets and put it in the base if I
need to go beyond 3-4 hours on the cordless.

I have enough UPS based power to run both ADSL modems and my cable
modem, external switches and soho routers plus my laptop for upwards of
12 hours (Assuming laptop batteries have a full charge -- If they're
trying to charge it puts excess load on the UPS), plus 15+ minutes on
all my in-house servers.

Oh yeah, this is my apartment :)

[Rich Cacace]

Steve; It sounds like you worked for the Bell System at one time.

Post by Asher Siboni
yea they did if your landline phone had a backup batery

Sad commentary. At what point in the evolution of our society did
wireline telephones ever require battteries?
Bring back the old Western Electric deskset (it didn't need
batteries).
Steve

[matt weber]

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 18:22:40 -0500, "Donald Newcomb"

Sad commentary. At what point in the evolution of our society did
wireline telephones ever require battteries?

Oh, since about 1876. 8-) Of course the batteries were all at the CO. Long
banks of racks filled with large, glass-tank, zinc-copper cells. WECO knew
how to build stuff, that's for sure. Of course a cellphone built that way
would weigh 87 lbs but it could survive a nuclear blast.

In fact if you visit almost any telephone exchange today, you will
still find a 'battery room', nothing but a room full of storage
batteries. Usually they are on 'float charge', which means they are
being fed from a charger, and are actually powering the exchange.

If you want to see really big storage batteries, that is where you
will find them. 2 volt, 800AH cells...

[danny burstein]

Post by matt weber
If you want to see really big storage batteries, that is where you
will find them. 2 volt, 800AH cells...

submarines. Oh, and also the backup power at nookleyur power plants.

[Steve & Susan]

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 00:11:34 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein

<snip> also the backup power at nookleyur power plants.

Do you mean "nucular"?

Stece

[mitchell friend]

most land line phones today dont work if electric goes out unless they
have some kind of battery back up ,only around 5 or so cordless have
battery back up and that is if you buy a extra battery to put in base
unit of phone.old phones where powered by phone conection but not any
more .

Post by Steve & Susan
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 18:22:40 -0500, "Donald Newcomb"

Sad commentary. At what point in the evolution of our society did
wireline telephones ever require battteries?

Oh, since about 1876. 8-) Of course the batteries were all at the CO. Long
banks of racks filled with large, glass-tank, zinc-copper cells. WECO knew
how to build stuff, that's for sure. Of course a cellphone built that way
would weigh 87 lbs but it could survive a nuclear blast.

In fact if you visit almost any telephone exchange today, you will
still find a 'battery room', nothing but a room full of storage
batteries. Usually they are on 'float charge', which means they are
being fed from a charger, and are actually powering the exchange.
If you want to see really big storage batteries, that is where you
will find them. 2 volt, 800AH cells...

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[GandalfSC]

Top Postings CORRECTED. Headers trimmed.

Post by mitchell friend

Post by Steve & Susan
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 18:22:40 -0500, "Donald Newcomb"

most land line phones today dont work if electric goes out unless they
have some kind of battery back up ,only around 5 or so cordless have
battery back up and that is if you buy a extra battery to put in base
unit of phone.old phones where powered by phone conection but not any
more .

WRONG. Any CORDED phone will work if the power goes out. SMALL amount
of electricity runs through the phone line to POWER the ringer and DTMF
tones
If OLD phones were powered and they aren't any longer, explain how you get
calls
on YOUR landline.

MOST phones today are CORDLESS, THEREFORE Battery
operated. Keep a CORDED phone
around for blackouts

[danny burstein]

Post by GandalfSC
WRONG. Any CORDED phone will work if the power goes out. SMALL amount
of electricity runs through the phone line to POWER the ringer and DTMF
tones

WRONG. They'll only work if they're getting electricity through the phone
line. And most assuredly NOT all phone lines are independent of utility
power, and qudrupally so if utility power is off for more than a few
hours.

[Steve & Susan]

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 03:43:13 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein

Post by danny burstein
WRONG. They'll only work if they're getting electricity through the phone
line. And most assuredly NOT all phone lines are independent of utility
power, and qudrupally so if utility power is off for more than a few
hours.

Or if your neighborhood/ building is being fed through a MUX which is
plugged into street power somewhere along the line.

Steve

[Steve & Susan]

Post by mitchell friend
most land line phones today dont work if electric goes out unless they
have some kind of battery back up ,only around 5 or so cordless have
battery back up and that is if you buy a extra battery to put in base
unit of phone.old phones where powered by phone conection but not any
more .

That's how this branch of the thread started, Mitch. I made a comment
about something similar along the lines of "real phones don't need
batteries" alluding to not having to put batteries in a consumer
phone, and how sad it is that a lot of us will buy gadgets (I'm no
exception) but overlook having one simple device that will work when I
run out of talk time on the 2.4 GHz spread spectrum cordless phone...
and then it exploded into central/ end office batteries and their
genesis (wasn't really what I was talking about, but oh well), as well
as some wireless facilities (mostly the older, wider coverage sites
that were present before fractioning coverage to lower, more directive
sites, and least of all on sites that are constructed using climate
controlled outdoor cabinets).

And, it all comes to this:

If there are two cellsite techs in a given hypothetical market and
there are 3 generators, and there are 78 sites, each with an umbilical
connection for power restoration, in a region-wide blackout, which
site gets the backup power and how long does it take to get it?

Steve

[Thomas D. Horne]

Post by John Eckart
Can anyone tell me if the landline phones work during blackouts in NY?

That depends on the type of land line you are talking about. Plain Old
Telephone Service (POTS) that runs on copper twisted pair cable is
powered from batteries at the exchange that are continuously charged by
converters that are supplied from utility power. The exchanges have
emergency generators. So if your telephone is on a copper pair that
goes all the way to the exchange your fine. Trouble is that as the
demand for service has expanded some of the techniques that have been
applied more recently are not as robust. Controlled Environment Vaults
or CEVs have batteries but no generator. These mini exchanges can serve
thousands of telephones. Some large apartment buildings have
multiplexers that combine dozens of calls onto a couple of pairs. When
power fails they die in just a couple of hours.

Telephone over Coax video cable will die when the line amplifier
batteries go dead.

There is no longer a simple answer to your question.
--
Tom

[Barrie Brozenske]

Post by John Eckart
Can anyone tell me if the landline phones work during blackouts in NY?

I can tell you that I could NOT reach my daughter in manhatten on her
landline, but she has a CORDLESS phone that requires electricity. I
would expect a plain ol' phone would work! The landline systems work on
batteries.

[Donald Newcomb]

Post by Barrie Brozenske
I can tell you that I could NOT reach my daughter in manhatten on her
landline, but she has a CORDLESS phone that requires electricity. I
would expect a plain ol' phone would work! The landline systems work on
batteries.

Right, the landline system is designed to continue to work even when the
electric power fails. However, customers can thwart this feature by using
fancy phones that rely on electric service. It's good to always have one
plain old telephone you can use in a blackout.
--

Donald Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net
Remove 'NOT' from address to reply

[Barrie Brozenske]

That sounds like a suggestion for a Christmas (or other) gift. You should
always have a basic phone, whether you regularly use it or not.

And you think she'd plug it in...not a chance! :-)

[Group Special Mobile]

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 09:44:05 -0400, Barrie Brozenske

Post by Barrie Brozenske

That sounds like a suggestion for a Christmas (or other) gift. You should
always have a basic phone, whether you regularly use it or not.

And you think she'd plug it in...not a chance! :-)

And you don't think you could explain to her that if the lights went
out and she had to use a telephone that she'd have to plug in the
regular phone? People aren't that dense. Or are they?

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[unknown]

I got an error message trying to access all three. Saying I wasn't the
owner of the album...
--
God Bless Ryan and Ross

photos of power plant that cause blackout
Loading Image...&title=power
plant
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=viewall&albumID=85814349
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=showMyPhoto&albumID=85814349&photoID=85814865&security=ZJojRw

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[Thomas T. Veldhouse]

These images are not publically available ... we are not the owners :)

Tom Veldhouse

photos of power plant that cause blackout

http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=add&albumID=858
14349&path=85814349.jpg&title=power

plant

http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=viewall&albumID
=85814349
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=showMyPhoto&alb
umID=85814349&photoID=85814865&security=ZJojRw

[/dev/ (Justa Lurker)]

It was Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:21:57 GMT, and James Knott
<***@rogers.com> wrote in alt.cellular:
| You should always have a basic phone, whether you regularly
| use it or not.

I still have an old 500 rotary phone.

JL


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[Group Special Mobile]

Post by /dev/ (Justa Lurker)
It was Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:21:57 GMT, and James Knott
| You should always have a basic phone, whether you regularly
| use it or not.
I still have an old 500 rotary phone.

I still have an old 202!
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[/dev/ (Justa Lurker)]

It was 15 Aug 2003 08:48:52 -0700, and ***@webmail.co.za
(steve) wrote in alt.cellular:
| photos of power plant that cause blackout

Er, no. The authorities STILL have not decided who was at fault.

JL


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[James Knott]

Post by John Eckart
Can anyone tell me if the landline phones work during blackouts in NY?

Land line phones are generally not affected by power outages, as the phone
system is run on batteries, with several hours capacity and they also have
back up generators.

[Whiz Kid]

Verizon landline phones will never be affected by power outages. Unlike
wireless companies, landline companies have all their COs and switching
centers are run by batteries, which are charged by electricity. If there
is a power failture, automatically diesel powered generators start
charging the batteries. So Verizon landline phones can work for MONTHS
during a power outage.

-WK.

Post by James Knott

Post by John Eckart
Can anyone tell me if the landline phones work during blackouts in NY?

Land line phones are generally not affected by power outages, as the phone
system is run on batteries, with several hours capacity and they also have
back up generators.
--
Fundamentalism is fundamentally wrong.
james.knott.

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[slim stick man]

AFAIK all VZW cell sites have diesel generators with enough fuel for
about 2 days - at least in NJ. One way to tell if a site is VZW is to
look at the shed. Verizon typically uses a large shelter about 10x20'
and there is an exhaust for the generator engine through the roof.
THe exhaust pipe is about 2" in diameter and is a foot or so and
extends above the roof a foot or so.

Post by Whiz Kid
Verizon landline phones will never be affected by power outages. Unlike
wireless companies, landline companies have all their COs and switching
centers are run by batteries, which are charged by electricity. If there
is a power failture, automatically diesel powered generators start
charging the batteries. So Verizon landline phones can work for MONTHS
during a power outage.
-WK.

Post by James Knott

Post by John Eckart
Can anyone tell me if the landline phones work during blackouts in NY?

Land line phones are generally not affected by power outages, as the phone
system is run on batteries, with several hours capacity and they also have
back up generators.
--
Fundamentalism is fundamentally wrong.
james.knott.

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[Joel Raskin]

Post by John Eckart
Can anyone tell me if the landline phones work during blackouts in NY?

Our landlines ( all 3 lines) worked fine for the first 18 hours - they
all went dead around 10am Friday, along with all of the residential
lines of those neighbors that I spoke with in mine and the surrounding
buidlings. I'm in Manhattan, on the Lower East Side. I found it
interesting - and I'm curious to know why - that the pay phone on the
corner was working throughout the blackout, which, for us, did not end
until 9pm (we were the last neighborhood to come back online). Wouldn't
the pay phone be serviced by the same CO and, if so, why would that line
have power when the residential lines did not?

FWIW, my VZW mobile service was barely usable by the time the landlines
went out. The phone kept going in and out of service in what is
normally a very strong signal area. I was successful in getting a call
out in about 1 out of 20 attempts. Luckily, the spare battery for my
7135 arrived on Wednesday and I had it charged and ready to go.

VZW service was spotty right from the start. In the first 2 hours, I was
trying to hook up with my friend who was zig-zagging south and east
from W. 40th Street to get to me. We had moderate success on landline
to mobile or mobile to landline calls - and almost no success on mobile
to mobile calls (only 1 such attempt was successful). Unfortunately, I
was on the move for much of the time, helping neighbors get up or
downstairs. I remember on one such trip up the stairs, my phone started
ringing 3 times along the way.... "you have an incoming" and would
abruptly die before the end of the first "ring" each time. These were
calls from my friend's VZW phone. On the other hand, a few minutes
later, an elderly neighbor who was unable to walk up the stairs to her
landline phone, was able to get a call out on my VZW phone to her son in
Chicago to let him know she was safe.

[Donald Newcomb]

I'm curious to know if anyone tried SMS?
--

Donald Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net
Remove 'NOT' from address to reply

Post by
I'm curious to see what cell companies, (Verizon, Nextel, etc.) continued to
have service in the affected areas during the black out and who did not.
Thanks in advance.

[Klopus Normalis]

On my a530 I could get SMS from ATTWS GSM but couldn't send anything.
Btw, Blackberry pager on Mobitex was working fine so I could exchange
email.

Post by Donald Newcomb
I'm curious to know if anyone tried SMS?
--
Donald Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net
Remove 'NOT' from address to reply

Post by
I'm curious to see what cell companies, (Verizon, Nextel, etc.) continued

to

Post by
have service in the affected areas during the black out and who did not.
Thanks in advance.

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[Nadyne Nelson]

I did and my message was sent. Unfortunately, my son has been unable to
charge his phone so, for all intents and purposes, he can't get the SMS
message I sent him.
--
Nadyne Nelson

Post by Donald Newcomb
I'm curious to know if anyone tried SMS?
--
Donald Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net
Remove 'NOT' from address to reply

Post by
I'm curious to see what cell companies, (Verizon, Nextel, etc.)

continued

Post by Donald Newcomb
to

Post by
have service in the affected areas during the black out and who did not.
Thanks in advance.

[Steve & Susan]

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 20:41:06 -0500, "Donald Newcomb"

Post by Donald Newcomb
I'm curious to know if anyone tried SMS?

SMS should have an advantage over voice because of a smaller data
packet size and algorithms used to get the message through at random
intervals. It keeps trying for a certain time period until it gets
through. Much better performance when faced with limited resources.

Steve

[James Knott]

Post by
I'm curious to see what cell companies, (Verizon, Nextel, etc.) continued
to have service in the affected areas during the black out and who did
not. Thanks in advance.

Rogers in the Toronto area maintained service until powered was restored at
11 PM in my area.

[Wayne Redick]

My Nextel worked in cellular mode,direct connect and group connect modes
fine.A few cell calls got "system busy" message.
Verizon calls got busy signals.
Upstate NY
Wayne

Post by
I'm curious to see what cell companies, (Verizon, Nextel, etc.) continued to
have service in the affected areas during the black out and who did not.
Thanks in advance.

[Person]

Post by
I'm curious to see what cell companies, (Verizon, Nextel, etc.) continued to
have service in the affected areas during the black out and who did not.
Thanks in advance.

Around 4:30-ish, my Sprint phone worked, but the call dropped, & for
the next few hours I kept getting a "fast busy".


Rob

----------

To email me, throw in an extra "x", and spell the domain correctly.

[momcat1]

In the thick of it in Hudson Valley, calls did not always go through the
first time, but they did go through, as long as they were to the
Northeast, essentially. My daughter's cell is a Hudson Valley number,
but she's stationed in Georgia. Could not get a call through to that
phone. But we were able to call her landline in Georgia. Also Verizon
vm did not pick up, although people who left me vm's were able to.
Signal levels displayed strong.

Post by
I'm curious to see what cell companies, (Verizon, Nextel, etc.) continued to
have service in the affected areas during the black out and who did not.
Thanks in advance.

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[p***@newyorkcity.com]

blackout photos


http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=showMyPhoto&albumID=85841557&photoID=85841701&security=GffrYg



http://community.webshots.com/user/blackoutphotos

[unknown]

That is not a black out photo dear.
--
God Bless Ryan and Ross

Post by p***@newyorkcity.com
blackout photos
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=showMyPhoto&albumID=85841557&photoID=85841701&security=GffrYg
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackoutphotos

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[p***@newyorkcity.com]

blackout photos


http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=showMyPhoto&albumID=85841557&photoID=85841701&security=GffrYg



http://community.webshots.com/user/blackoutphotos

[James Knott]

Post by p***@newyorkcity.com
blackout photos

Your photos are blacked out, if you can't sign in.

[WEST]

Post by
I'm curious to see what cell companies, (Verizon, Nextel, etc.) continued to
have service in the affected areas during the black out and who did not.
Thanks in advance.

T-Mobile had service for perhaps about 20-30 minutes into it, but has since
croaked. Some of my NY friends are reporting others phones working -- don't
know which service tho...

I'm disappointed in T-Mo's ability to work under adverse conditions -- they
did so well on 9/11...

[Group Special Mobile]

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:37:57 -0500, Steven J Sobol

Post by WEST
I'm disappointed in T-Mo's ability to work under adverse conditions -- they
did so well on 9/11...

Go to cingular you'd have much better luck (yeah right!)

There is no difference. Cingular uses T-Mobile's network in New York.

Well duh! (thus the yeah right!)
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[Mark Filla]

Recent article on the blackout and voids in cellphone performance during
the power outage:

http://money.cnn.com/2003/08/15/technology/landlines/index.htm?cnn=yes
--
Mark KS4VT

Post by Group Special Mobile

There is no difference. Cingular uses T-Mobile's network in New York.

Well duh! (thus the yeah right!)

Okay, but some people aren't aware of that! :)
--
JustThe.net Internet & Multimedia Services
22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
Steve Sobol, Proprietor

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[CCCC1 1CCCC]

Hey VEALOTS read it if you can, understand it, LIVE IT..... Truth not
excusses....

Post by Mark Filla
Recent article on the blackout and voids in cellphone performance during
http://money.cnn.com/2003/08/15/technology/landlines/index.htm?cnn=yes
--
Mark KS4VT

Post by Group Special Mobile

There is no difference. Cingular uses T-Mobile's network in New York.

Well duh! (thus the yeah right!)

Okay, but some people aren't aware of that! :)
--
JustThe.net Internet & Multimedia Services
22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
Steve Sobol, Proprietor

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[Stuart Friedman]

I'm in Detroit which also had a block out. At the time the power went out,
I was in Lansing (the very most western extent of the blackout). I had
ATT. The network overloaded but was on. It took about four tries to get a
call out and calls to Europe didn't work. I drove home to a suburb of
Detroit and got home about 2 hours after the blackout. I still had service.
My wife who had T-Mobile didn't. About two hours later, I lost ATT service.

My wife has a Sprint datacard from her employer. We were able to use it the
next morning. (Our DSL was down and the dialup was constantly busy).

Stu

I'm glad that you enjoyed the article.... ^5
--
Mark KS4VT

Post by CCCC1 1CCCC
Hey VEALOTS read it if you can, understand it, LIVE IT..... Truth not
excusses....

Post by Mark Filla
Recent article on the blackout and voids in cellphone performance during
http://money.cnn.com/2003/08/15/technology/landlines/index.htm?cnn=yes
--
Mark KS4VT

Post by Group Special Mobile

There is no difference. Cingular uses T-Mobile's network in New York.

Well duh! (thus the yeah right!)

Okay, but some people aren't aware of that! :)
--
JustThe.net Internet & Multimedia Services
22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
Steve Sobol, Proprietor

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[Male Bomb]

I read it but must have missed the part where the Nextel phones were
working and the VZW phones were not working. You are you own worst
enemy. The "vealots" don't make you look as stupid as your own replys
do. MB

Post by CCCC1 1CCCC
Hey VEALOTS read it if you can, understand it, LIVE IT..... Truth not
excusses....

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[CCCC1 1CCCC]

tampon... no its your replys and the rest of the vealots that make going
to another provider something to think about to get some space between
vealots and customer who just want hone that work, with out haveing to
hear the whines and crys of vealots when they are trying to defend vzn
fat cats. Be assured its vealots that prove the other providers and the
rest of us sane and stable, unlike loser vealots such as yourself... one
that by the way has no answers and NOTHING to talk about... funny just
like vzn VEALOT

Post by Male Bomb
I read it but must have missed the part where the Nextel phones were
working and the VZW phones were not working. You are you own worst
enemy. The "vealots" don't make you look as stupid as your own replys
do. MB

Post by CCCC1 1CCCC
Hey VEALOTS read it if you can, understand it, LIVE IT..... Truth not
excusses....

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[Strong Bad]

CCCC1, I would like you to eduacte me really quick...and please without
name calling...etc. I would like to know what your definition of
defending is vs. helping and explaining? Just a simpe question bro

Post by CCCC1 1CCCC
tampon... no its your replys and the rest of the vealots that make going
to another provider something to think about to get some space between
vealots and customer who just want hone that work, with out haveing to
hear the whines and crys of vealots when they are trying to defend vzn
fat cats. Be assured its vealots that prove the other providers and the
rest of us sane and stable, unlike loser vealots such as yourself... one
that by the way has no answers and NOTHING to talk about... funny just
like vzn VEALOT

Post by Male Bomb
I read it but must have missed the part where the Nextel phones were
working and the VZW phones were not working. You are you own worst
enemy. The "vealots" don't make you look as stupid as your own replys
do. MB

Post by CCCC1 1CCCC
Hey VEALOTS read it if you can, understand it, LIVE IT..... Truth not
excusses....

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[cindy]

# 28 29 30

the blackout 2003 is a good thing because the system
needs to be tested now and then to fix it and the
best thing about a blackout in the subway is having
sex in the dark with someone you don't know.


yes yes yes it's a good thing unsafe sex.

[Coasterbuf]

Apparently they are now giving mental patients access to the internet.

I suppose I shouldn't ask someone with such reduced mental capacities a
rational question, but I just have to ask anyway. If you hate Verizon so
much, then why are you here?

Post by CCCC1 1CCCC
tampon... no its your replys and the rest of the vealots that make going
to another provider something to think about to get some space between
vealots and customer who just want hone that work, with out haveing to
hear the whines and crys of vealots when they are trying to defend vzn
fat cats. Be assured its vealots that prove the other providers and the
rest of us sane and stable, unlike loser vealots such as yourself... one
that by the way has no answers and NOTHING to talk about... funny just
like vzn VEALOT

e alt.cellular groups]

[Mark Filla]

Here is another article:

http://www.hoovers.com/free/news/detail.xhtml?ArticleID=NR200308153300.2_b07a00145d9b1212

"Cell phone service once again failed to step up in the face of
calamity.During Thursday's blackout that darkened parts of the
Northeast, most cell phone subscribers were unable to make calls when
they reached for their handsets."

"The carriers blamed the ongoing outages on their cellular transmitter
stations, which handle cell phone call traffic. "We need electricity to
power our cell sites, but when you don't have that, it's out of our
control," Nextel Communications spokesman Chris Grandis said.The
transmitter stations are powered by electricity, and most have battery
backups that provide three to six hours of additional operation. But
when the blackout stretched beyond six hours, the stations that were
still working went dead."

[momcat1]

Funny thing about that. During the blackout we could use our cell
phones in NY metro suburb, although it was not perfect. Today, two days
later when our area is back to 'normal', we can't get a digital signal
on the cells and our landline can't place any calls. But of course,
that would never make the press.

Post by Mark Filla
Recent article on the blackout and voids in cellphone performance during
http://money.cnn.com/2003/08/15/technology/landlines/index.htm?cnn=yes

Good article. Basic, but it still touched all the bases.
--
Donald Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net
Remove 'NOT' from address to reply

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[CCCC1 1CCCC]

momcat... oh know dont tell the vealots that... they are going to go
crazy

Post by momcat1  
Funny thing about that. During the blackout we could use our cell
phones in NY metro suburb, although it was not perfect. Today, two days
later when our area is back to 'normal', we can't get a digital signal
on the cells and our landline can't place any calls. But of course,
that would never make the press.

Post by Mark Filla
Recent article on the blackout and voids in cellphone performance during
http://money.cnn.com/2003/08/15/technology/landlines/index.htm?cnn=yes

Good article. Basic, but it still touched all the bases.
--
Donald Newcomb
DRNewcomb (at) attglobal (dot) net
Remove 'NOT' from address to reply

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]

[/dev/ (Justa Lurker)]

It was Fri, 15 Aug 2003 17:01:30 -0700, and "zigfire1"
<***@cox.net> wrote in alt.cellular:
| You mention that T-MO did so well on 911, although not
| everyone had to make a phone call on that dreadful day.

9-11 had such a narrow focus that people who knew where
their loved ones should be they probably didn't place a
call (unless they were just looking for general welfare
answers, such as "did you see" and "how are you coping").

The actual network outages on 9-11 were less. Verizon's
building and other landline circuits were damaged as well
as antennas in the immediate area being destroyed. It
was a concentrated failure.

The blackout was more widespread. Any failures were up to
the individual failures of batteries and generators. The
overload factor was also more widespread. Not only did
wireless have to deal with too many users on the sites, but
they had to squeeze all of those calls on limited landline
connections.

If the system was engineered for the worst day of service
it would be severely over engineered for the other million
days that it is online.

JL


----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
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[John S.]

Nope. It's been, oh, thirty or so years since that was true.

Unplug your line from your phone, leave it plugged into the wall and lick the
contacts.

Phone lines
today are quite likely to be coming through all sorts of remote service
units.

This is true but the equipment that connects to the copper wire that comes to
each and every home puts -48vdc on that cable pair.

Then come back and tell me that I don't know what I am talking about. In the
mean time the rest of you people believe me, there is -48 volt power on the
phone line. EVERY PHONE LINE. And the phone will continue to work as long as
the battery plant at the phone companies central office is still available.





--
John S.
e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net

[danny burstein]

In <***@mb-m01.aol.com> ***@aol.comspamfree (John S.) writes:

[ snip ]

Post by John S.
Then come back and tell me that I don't know what I am talking about. In the
mean time the rest of you people believe me, there is -48 volt power on the
phone line. EVERY PHONE LINE. And the phone will continue to work as long as
the battery plant at the phone companies central office is still available.

I'm not wasting any more time being polite. You are wrong, wrong, WRONG.

As I said earlier, and as every competent and technically literate person
who's had any dealings with telco equipment in the past thirty years can
tell you, a hefty chunk of what looks like "regular" copper line in your
home does NOT go directly back to the central office, does NOT pass "go",
and does NOT get the -48vdc from CO battery plant and generators.

A remote concentrator (often called a SL(i)C) may be in the basment of
your building, or in a telco hut a mile down the road. It's got battery
backup, but that's ONLY good for a few hours.